Block tier change/addition proposal from discord convos - #11766
Block tier change/addition proposal from discord convos#11766Shadizar wants to merge 25 commits into
Conversation
For each item, a brief summary of the discussions. Where tier changes were made they're removed from one and added to the other, so you'll see them in other files. Mud: awkward to get compared to many T1, suggest T2 Composted dirt: Same Colored stained glasses: more work than glass (which is T1) hence was suggested to T2 Dead bush: uncommon biome plus needs harvesting specially compared to some->T3 Added several missing blocks; some new to 1.21, others presumably omitted as T0. For the latter (mostly wood stuff), before moving to T1 they were multiple slots away from other overworld woods; now, commons are T1 and uncommons T2, only one step diff which seemed more reasonable
For each item, a brief summary of the discussions. Where tier changes were made they're removed from one and added to the other, so you'll see them in other files. Pressure plates moved from T3 to T2 (trivially easy to craft manually, and rarely have many in a build) Dark oaks/mangroves moved from T3 to T2 (so they're only 1 step from other woods not multiple); styles that use wood typically include the pertinent saplings too, which is a factor in the tier. Also, mangrove/dark oak seemed easier than most nether stuff (T3) so it also made sense from that perspective Oxidized coppers are very time consuming and tedious to get compared to regular copper, was suggested to move them to T3 Rooted dirt is only found under azaleas and that's rarer still than much of T2, moved to 3. Unlikely to impact much, probably rarely used. Dead corals moved up in tier (they're acquired the same way as live...just that you then allow them to die, so they seemed higher than T2) Observer uses nether material, moved to T3 Added many missing blocks ; Acacia/cherry seemed on par with mangrove/dark oak. Hanging signs use iron. Tuff's mostly deep. Stripped logs/wood seemed a notch more annoying than non stripped from effort perspective, put them here.
For each item, a brief summary of the discussions. Where tier changes were made they're removed from one and added to the other, so you'll see them in other files. as noted moved mangrove/dark oak down (note, wood gate shows in the diff but it's still same T3, it just moved in the list a lot) Moved Nylium down from T4, by T3 time you have silk touch and corals are here, they're very analogous in difficulty/harvesting tbh Alium, lily of the valley, sunflower, sculk/veins, moved as they're not as hard as T4 (and easily acquired with caution) Added missing blocks that appeared to match tier. (Bear in mind copper bulbs require nether stuffs)
For each item, a brief summary of the discussions. Where tier changes were made they're removed from one and added to the other, so you'll see them in other files. Torchflower/pitcher plant here based on comparison with difficulty of other stuff in this tier Added a couple minor missing items. Other changes are flowthroughs from prior tiers
For each item, a brief summary of the discussions. Where tier changes were made they're removed from one and added to the other, so you'll see them in other files. Move froglights up...consensus seemed to be they're on par with wither roses/beacons. you have to get various frogs to the nether and build a farm, or manage a process, that is quite nontrivial
Deepslate emerald ore, and froglights added based on rarity and/or difficulty.
Update tier2blocks.json based on discord discussions
Update tier3blocks.json
Update tier4blocks.json
Update tier5blocks.json
Update tier6blocks.json
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Made the changes minus a few conversation points remaining, plz re review |
| "minecraft:cut_sandstone", | ||
| "minecraft:glass", | ||
| "minecraft:glass_pane", | ||
| "minecraft:white_stained_glass", |
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we should keep the glass here, the important distinction is the obtaining difficulty of the dye. Yellow/Red/white are easy to obtain, while e.g. green/black are harder and thus tier 2
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It seems that stained glass should be higher than plain though yes?
And yellow/red/white are only easy to obtain in some biomes...not all?
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they're found in like 10+ biomes and you can bonemeal them at a lot of places too
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As noted above in the graphs they're less common than other things in T2 at least in vanilla (diorite, deepslate)
There are other precedents in that list too, like red concrete powder
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Tier 2 holds the complex dyes, tier 1 the easier ones. Not everything in the same tier is comparable with eachother, thats impossible to achieve
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yep this was already adjusted per your/ray's comments; shouldbe correct now.
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Anyway, i believe current file state is consistent with what you wanted, please confirm
| "domum_ornamentum:blockbarreldeco_onside", | ||
| "domum_ornamentum:blockbarreldeco_standing", | ||
| "minecolonies:colonysign", | ||
| "minecraft:bamboo_block", |
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the base bamboo is tier 2 as you require a special biome to obtain bamboo, should move all the craftables there too
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I balanced that against the fact that styles that use bamboo typically provide some in supply...and that it grows so very fast. Seemed easier surely than dark oak, mangrove etc
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I wouldnt balance against some players abusing supply camps to obtain it
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It's not abusive to acquire intended materials from supply camps...and some such camps (like dark oak treehouse with all the leaves and some saplings) are coremod, so it's hardly non canonical
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Addressed per Ray's comments; as it would be same tier as jungle/dark oak and he indicated to move these to T1 (and more common woods to T0) this seems to now be resolved
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ye I'll have to disagree with ray there, Cherry mangrove etc are not on a similar level to obtain as stone bricks, beds or terracotta
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They've always been higher than the other woods. At original they were 2 whole tiers separated from the other woods and now they're lowered (and only 1 tier diff)
So my change is actually more congruent with yours and Rays comments now, not less...they've actually been lowered.
Clearly , Birch/oak and such are easier than Mangrove/cherry and such (and are therefore only 1 tier lower); seems correct yes?
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Yeah, we were talking about potentially adding a curve to the materials.
Atm a mangrove/dark-oak/cherry style would be a lot more expensive than a spruce style, but if you're in the biome already, it's actually not that expensive. So the cost should probably be more of a curve. 1-2 cherry blocks in a building and cherry is a lot higher in cost, compared to all building is made out of cherry.
In that context cherry/mangrove etc should be obviously ranked a lot higher than stone bricks or terracotta.
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Supplycamps intention was to make it easy to start a colony where you are. But using a lot of different supply-camp styles to get samplings you didn't get via exploration was never the intention of it.
| "minecraft:bamboo_stairs", | ||
| "minecraft:bamboo_trapdoor", | ||
| "minecraft:barrel", | ||
| "minecraft:birch_button", |
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I would not add any basic wooden materials to tier1, tier 1 is basic but a bit harder than t0(default), the most common wooden types I'd keep at t0
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The reason that was done is the gap between woods (birch/oak etc.) started VERY wide between acacia/dark oak/mangrove. This way, the harder ones are T2 (they're in no way as hard as Nether stuff), and the other ones therefore made sense at T1 imo
Especially as styles that use "harder" wood typically provide the saplings, a gap of more than 1 seemed unnecessary
I could move the T1 woods to T0, and the T2 ones to T1 if preferred?
But bearing in mind getting wood also does take time and effort more than say dirt, so T0 also seemed too low
Thoughts?
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Tier 1 is intended for the cheap, but slightly more sophisticated blocks so not very base materials like oak wood stuff
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Some trees are harder to get than others (per multiple prior feedbacks in this PR).
The less common woods are now T1 (down from T2) and common woods are T0 which seems right from those prior feedbacks.
Moved uncommon woods to T1 per Ray's comment in https://discord.com/channels/139070364159311872/976625343358189618/1532659063219818506 This includes bamboo as it seems to match that feedback Moved 'common' dyables using red/yellow/white (or combos : pink/orange) here per stained glass feedbacks. Terracottas, glazed terracottas, concrete powder ( which after all is just sand/gravel/dye, in the same ratio as stained glass, 8blocks plus dye), and wool products of those common colors here too, as consistency.
the changes here are just reflective of the T1 changes just committed.
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Made changes to address review feedback. See commit f5bad09 Please review; there are a few remaining comments awaiting response from the commenters (sculk, allium, dead bush, are the ones I think are remaining) |
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I incorporated feedback from https://discord.com/channels/139070364159311872/1487936296948076635/1533697444184068188 From that the below were the changes. Please review; also please comment on the Glass and Wool questions? Some wool was recommended to move up but unclear whether it meant all or not (honestly I can just skip that too if there's not much interest) I did move up stuff that needed extra (slower) processing from base materials up one level that seemed to mirror the other feedbacks (smooth sandstone; cracked stone bricks) (raw notes that I condensed from the conversations is below for reference) T2 T3 T4 T5 T6 |
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No rush, just a note in case it got lost above. |
moving crimson hanging sign up, whoops
moved crimson hanging sign here
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fixed discord comment of misplaced crimson hanging sign |
| "minecraft:stone_brick_stairs", | ||
| "minecraft:stone_brick_slab", | ||
| "minecraft:stone_brick_wall", | ||
| "minecraft:cracked_stone_bricks", |
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should stay here, smelting a second time doesnt bring it on a similar level as iron blocks etc
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Ray had me do similar for clay->bricks and this fits the same double processing pattern yes? that seems consistent logically
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or rather clay-bricks-brick block (so , the smelt + craft
and cracked is craft+smelt, the same number/compound of operations that Ray indicated moved bricks up
| "minecraft:end_rod", | ||
| "#minecraft:shulker_boxes", | ||
| "minecraft:skeleton_skull", | ||
| "minecraft:wither_skeleton_skull", |
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skeleton skulls are part of pirate ships and raider camps, shouldnt need to be that rare
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Moved here per Ray's comments; plz consult with him
Also , very slow to acquire via raids (and not everyone does raids, or fully loots)
I believe the guidance was rarity in world not from dynamic events
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We have wither skeleton skulls in the ships, not normal skeletion skulls. But they also only appear on the high level colonies (tier 3 ship afaik), so it makes sense at T5 for me
| "minecraft:grindstone", | ||
| "minecraft:item_frame", | ||
| "minecraft:painting", | ||
| "minecraft:sand", |
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it's consistent with gravel which is also T1
getting it in quantity is also requiring desert or beaches (similar to the gravel shores/mountains)
so it seems they'd both be moved down in that case no? But in any case, not as easy to get as most T0 stuff?
| "#minecraft:nylium", | ||
| "minecraft:sunflower", | ||
| "minecolonies:gate_wood", | ||
| "minecolonies:gate_iron", |
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we had this higher in tier4, since its gated by research which is gated by level 4 buildings, which in turn use t4 materials
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both gates can be done by mechanic lvl 3 not 4, and mech research is only level 2 at uni
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in fact upon review it looks to me like lvl 1 mechanic (gated only by lvl 2 research) can make both gates...seems pretty Tier2 to me tbh but given they're at tier 3 should be more than high enough yes?
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The path to mechanic is usually quite slow and people don't get them that early, so when suddenly a level 2-3 building needs a gate it might still take them ages to build it. At level 2 you often just built your Uni, and at level 3, you usually don't have a whole lot researched yet.
So it's sort of, you need to be a level 3 colony, to get this all running, that's the intention of making it T4.
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Are you sure, because T4 has gilded blackstone; crying obsidian; diamond blocks
It seems odd to say, a T2 research and a lvl 1 mechanic with wood and iron is as hard as those?
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T3 even has things like bell, and silk touch stuff like mushroom blocks which seemed way more in line probably?
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Discussion was at https://discord.com/channels/139070364159311872/1487936296948076635
T1
Mud: awkward to get compared to many T1, suggest T2 Composted dirt: Same
Colored stained glasses: more work than glass (which is T1) hence was suggested to T2 Dead bush: uncommon biome plus needs harvesting specially compared to some->T3 Added several missing blocks; some new to 1.21, others presumably omitted as T0. For the latter (mostly wood stuff), before moving to T1 they were multiple slots away from other overworld woods; now, commons are T1 and uncommons T2, only one step diff which seemed more reasonable
T2 file comments
Pressure plates moved from T3 to T2 (trivially easy to craft manually, and rarely have many in a build) Dark oaks/mangroves moved from T3 to T2 (so they're only 1 step from other woods not multiple); styles that use wood typically include the pertinent saplings too, which is a factor in the tier. Also, mangrove/dark oak seemed easier than most nether stuff (T3) so it also made sense from that perspective Oxidized coppers are very time consuming and tedious to get compared to regular copper, was suggested to move them to T3 Rooted dirt is only found under azaleas and that's rarer still than much of T2, moved to 3. Unlikely to impact much, probably rarely used. Dead corals moved up in tier (they're acquired the same way as live...just that you then allow them to die, so they seemed higher than T2) Observer uses nether material, moved to T3
Added many missing blocks ; Acacia/cherry seemed on par with mangrove/dark oak. Hanging signs use iron. Tuff's mostly deep. Stripped logs/wood seemed a notch more annoying than non stripped from effort perspective, put them h
T3
as noted moved mangrove/dark oak down
(note, wood gate shows in the diff but it's still same T3, it just moved in the list a lot) Moved Nylium down from T4, by T3 time you have silk touch and corals are here, they're very analogous in difficulty/harvesting tbh Alium, lily of the valley, sunflower, sculk/veins, moved as they're not as hard as T4 (and easily acquired with caution)
Added missing blocks that appeared to match tier. (Bear in mind copper bulbs require nether stuffs)
T4
Torchflower/pitcher plant here based on comparison with difficulty of other stuff in this tier
Added a couple minor missing items.
Other changes are flowthroughs from prior tiers
T5
Move froglights up...consensus seemed to be they're on par with wither roses/beacons. you have to get various frogs to the nether and build a farm, or manage a process, that is quite nontrivial
T6
Deepslate emerald ore, and froglights added based on rarity and/or difficulty.
Review please